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The JF-17 is a fighter jet co-developed by the Pakistani Air force and the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) of China as a replacement to both nations aging fleet of MIG-21 derivatives and PAF’s Mirage III and V. The project was started in early 1990s and the project was awarded to Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation which has designed and developed the plane with collaboration with the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. As a result of American and Western sanctions imposed on China following the Tiananmen Square incident the project was abandoned briefly. Following the Indian acquisition of the SU-30 and Mig-29s and other advanced fighter jets such as the Mirage-2000, the JF-17 program was given a task of countering the threat posed to the Pakistani Air Force by the Indian acquisition of the said jets. As a result, the plane was re-designed to make way for advanced features and characteristics necessary for the transformation of the plane into a true 4th generation fighter.The JF-17 Thunder is a light combat aircraft, a single-engine fighter with all-weather capability, which Pakistan has developed with the help of the Chinese. It is a third-generation fighter that has been so designed that it can take on the fourth-generation fighter aircraft. The JF-17 fighter project would soon see serial production at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra. In this connection, a ceremony was recently held at the aeronautical complex, presided over by the chief of the air staff, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood.
According to the JF-17 project director, the PAF will not only be the user but also the manufacturer of the JF-17 aircraft. Therefore, the manufacturing and production process of the aircraft will be monitored and controlled by the PAF from the very beginning.
The story of the JF-17 Thunder, to say the least, is rather amazing. The origins of the programme lie in the Sabre 2 project that the Chinese Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) had started with the American Northrop Grumman in the late Eighties. Following the Tiananmen Square issue in 1989, the Americans pulled out of the project. In came the Russian Mikoyan OKB. Pakistan received the invitation to join the party apparently in 1995, but it took four years to finalise the Air Staff proposal for codesigning, co-developing and co-manufacturing with the Chinese government. From that point, there was no turning back. In fact, to meet the fighter gap that the PAF was facing because of the American embargoes on F-16s, the Pakistanis, to a large extent, took over the project from the Chinese. In this respect, reports say that the specifications of the project were changed to include the PAF’s request for incorporation of the capability to fire beyond visual range (BVR) missiles following the induction of Su-27s by the Indian Air Force.
The underpinnings of the JF-17 project can be traced to the following factors.
First, the Pakistan Air Force has developed over the years a strong engineering base. In the early days of the service, engineering officers were sent abroad for training. The establishment of the College of Aeronautical Engineering at Korangi Creek during the mid-Sixties was a major step towards developing a team of professionals who could provide a strong engineering backbone to the service. The appointment of Colonel John H Blakelock from the United States Air Force as the first principal, and other American officers, who served till 1978, offered the much-needed impetus to the system of education at the CAE, which was developed on the lines of the United States Air Force Institute of Technology. The curricula it offers in both aerospace and avionics engineering is accepted worldwide. The CAE graduates, who have a hallmark of talent and professionalism, have helped to meet the rapid advancements in aviation technology and increasing complexity of PAF equipment. They have also made a significant contribution to the JF-17 programme, successfully dealing with different technological issues. Without them, meeting the Pakistani requirements and specifications for the JF-17 programme would not have been possible.
Second, it is safe to assume that the success of the Karakoram-8 jet trainer programme, which was carried out with the Chinese prior to the development of Thunder fighter, provided the thrust for the JF-17 programme. The lessons that were learnt from the K-8 programme regarding programme management, project designs, project monitoring, system integration, acquisition of technology from abroad or indigenous development, among others, were most likely put into effect in the JF-17 project, which is far more complex in nature and requires greater labour and technological input.
Third, while the training system of the Pakistan Air Force imbues a strong spirit of confidence, audacity and initiative among the officers and the airmen, what we see from the two joint ventures with the Chinese is that unnecessary risks were not taken. Instead, with regard to the two projects, good judgment, common sense and logic prevailed. The emphasis was not on producing the world’s best weapons system; rather it was on turning out a practical weapons system which could meet the requirements of the two services. Accordingly, instead of the aim being the most sophisticated top-of-the-line systems, it was kept in mind that a practicable and cost-effective technology could produce the desired results.
Fourth, the PAF has certainly followed the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), or Tejas (Radiance) programme, and kept its failures in mind while working on the JF-17 project. The Indian LCA programme is now approaching the fourth decade of its operation. The initial operational clearance of the LCA project, which was sanctioned in 1983 to replace the MiG-21s, has now been pushed back to mid-2008 while it could be joining the Indian Air Force in the years beyond 2010. Not only that, the original project cost of Rs56 billion could cross a figure of Rs100 billion. For the much-touted aircraft that would have a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, composite airframe made of aluminium-lithium alloys, carbon-fibre and titanium, full-glass cockpit, advanced combat avionics, multi-mode radar and contemporary weapon systems, the costs have massively over-run and the delays are mind-boggling. But still, the dream of developing an indigenous Kaveri engine is far off and the initial aircraft squadrons will be equipped with the American GE-404 engines. Nevertheless, in the fast changing geo-strategic environment, the missions for which the LCA was originally conceived may have changed when it is inducted in the Indian Air Force in large numbers.
Fifth, unsurprisingly, the US embargoes that keep on hitting the Pakistan military again and again have done wonders for the country’s indigenous defence capabilities. These embargoes have convinced the military hierarchy that the US will always be an unreliable partner and, as such, it is imperative not to put all the eggs in one basket. Also, the panacea to these embargoes is developing indigenous defence capabilities. As one would have thought, we are once again hearing suggestions over the F-16s by certain not-too-smart American senators and congressmen.
On March 21, 2007, President Musharraf was at the PAC Kamra to mark the arrival of the first two JF-17s from China. On that occasion, the Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, declared: “We thank Almighty Allah for giving us the strength, wisdom and foresight to conceive the idea of the JF-17 aircraft.” The JF-17 project tells us that there is no substitute to grasping good ideas, making quick decisions, strong commitment and hard work while at the same time keeping your head down. No wonder, the air chief is a happy man. And so is the service that has seen many embargoes, lack of funding and denial of technology in the face of a superior adversary.
While we are highly critical of our military these days, some of the criticisms certainly more than justified, achievements like the JF-17 project should nevertheless be acclaimed and recognised
By Salman Mansoor
Ceo Neon Solutions
www.neonsolutions.net
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42 responses so far ↓
1 maverick // Feb 9, 2008 at 5:41 am
Nice article. You should write about Pakistan army more.
Strong Air Force is a corner stone of any military defense today. I hope that one day Pakistan will be self-sufficient in its military needs. I think India has been a major source of motivation (reason) for large number of right decisions in history of Pakistani army/defense. We created Nukes because India had them and we started JF-17 because India was working on such a project. There is nothing wrong in following in the right steps.
Pakistan must start to catch up in other fields of science and technology, for one space. I dont mind if the purpose is to copy/compete with India. I have been really impressed with the improvement and advancement in western neighbor of Pakistan.
2 bhatti // Feb 9, 2008 at 10:14 am
nice article, this is 4.5 generation fighter plane and can be modified into 5th generation in future as stated by Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood in the recent cermoney.
for further detail, here is a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder
3 Sufi // Feb 9, 2008 at 11:26 am
Sorry guys we need atta,fuel,bread and other comodities to run the daily affairs of life. These jet fighter would not save this country from the clutches of poverty,uncertainty,tyrrany and other evils.
Fighter jets could not prevent the collapse of Soviet Union.
4 jasmine // Feb 10, 2008 at 1:02 am
Nice Article, please keep sending more…
Jasmine Rafique
http://pkfocus.blogspot.com
5 Maqbool Ahmed // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:10 am
This is the first step toward our independent.Freedom is not free every indiviusal has to pay the price.We have to scrafies a lot to achieve this kind of freedom.I am so proud of those people who contributed in this achievement to build fighter plane in Pakistan.Please keep those designers behind the curtain,so that no body can know their names and their photoes in news paper.we can not see again what happen to our hero dr.Qadeer Khan.
Maqbool Ahmed
Parlin .NJ
6 Quli // Feb 11, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Its the ignorant who are robbed of their rights in the name of patriotism. I dont see the MNA’s, MPA’s and Generals exercising monetary constraints while burning through the tax payers money. We need to cut down on the military budget and spend more on its people life’s basics
7 salmanit // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Thanks to all the people who are sharing their thoughts and providing their valuable comments. I really appreciate you all.
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Salman Mansoor
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Thankx and Regards
Salman Mansoor
Ceo Neon Solutions
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8 Salman Ahmed // Feb 13, 2008 at 6:12 pm
It’s really the time when we all should feel our head high up in the Air!!!
Being a Chemical Engineer myself, I Thank my fellow Aero Engineers for making it possible atlast.. CONGRATS..
Keep it going & keep it up.. I am with you ; )
9 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 13, 2008 at 8:01 pm
What a landmark in the pakistani history we are among those few nations who have developed the capability to develope their own fighter jets.Thumbs up to PAF just for the info many countries have shown interest in buying these fighter jets such countries include bangladesh , Egypt and some african countries.Sufi my brother i agree that we need atta more than weapons but a country without a strong airforce is just at the rehmokaram of its enemy in our case its india. Thirdly it will fullfill our requirements in the future as we wont be needing usa or some other state to provide us with military hardware plus its export can earn us some valuable revenue.DOnt forget people thats its a 4th generation aircraft and is gonna serve this nation for quite some time its the first step towards selfreliance ALlah u Akbar.We are were and inshallah will alwayz be pround on our airforce PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
10 Sufi // Feb 14, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Sorry guys once again. The JF fighters would never fill the appatite of the people. The people of Pakistan needs flour,cooking oil,gas,better health care facility,education and rule of law. These fighters would never save our country from disaster.
The generals and air marshals wants to ursurp the wealth of this nation. They are on the ground for the last 60 years in the name of security. The Indian Centric mentality of the generals have weaken our country. Today bombs,missiles and other weapons would not save the federatioN,but rule of law. The judges are detained and the generals are testing missiles and JF fighters. We Pakistan needs institutions,rule of law,free judiciary and economic justice. Missiles would weaken the foundation of Pakistan. Our foreign debt has jumped to 40 billion USD. Do we still need foreign debts to test missiles or JF fighters.
A nation can survive with rule of law but can sustain with bombs and JF fighters. I urge the people of Pakistan to stand up against the generals who have detained our beloved judges,lawyers and journalists. The air marshals would along with the generls should be hanged publically who have plundered this country in the name of state security.
Go Musharraf go
Go generals go
Gnerals are the agents of ZIONITS and air marshals too are only answerable to the state department. They allowed the spy plane of the US to fly from Peshawer the 1962 U-2 crisis erupted. What they are showing before the nation?
Instead of testing these fighters flour and cooking oil should be provided to the down troddened. So please stop this drama and game of chicken. We are well aware about the conspiracies of Ayubs,Yayhas,Ashgar Khans and fanatic ZIONIST ZIA’s. The YAZID of the 21st century of Pakistan Mr Musharraf are now fully naked in the eyes of the nation. Their 60 years of plunder game is now finished. They can not cheat the people of Pakistan in the name of security anymore.
God bless the people of Pakistan.
Generals must go to hell like Fanatic ZIA. We want to extinguish these generals once and for all.
The day would come when people would set fire these JF fighters and F-16’s. We will excavate the graves of the dictators and chop their hands and set fire their bones inshallah. As you sow shall you reap.
By God willing we will win the battle against the YAZIDS.
11 Sufi // Feb 14, 2008 at 7:10 pm
A country borrowed 40 billion foreign debt does not deserve to test missiles and JF fighters. Do we have the right to test weapons? When the people of Pakistan have no basic health facility. They do not have an access to pure drinking water. What we are doing for the last 60 years???
I need my friends to think the repurcussions of such adventure,,,…
12 jasmine // Feb 14, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Pakistan needs people like TATA, Birla, Ambani. I hope our youngsters start watching a dream to be the biggest business tycoons of this world… Then they can create jobs and bring money to this nation.
Jasmine Rafique
http://pkFocus.blogspot.com
http://HackStart.blogspot.com
13 salmanit // Feb 15, 2008 at 1:08 am
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14 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 15, 2008 at 12:44 pm
hey sufi do u want us to be like lebanon syria iraq or afghanistan countries that cannot even defend themselves we have one of the world`s most capable armed force ur saying against the same airmarshals that shot down 120 indian fighters in 1965 and lost only 20 the seperation of pakistan wasn`t army it was ur politician mr bhutto we shouldn`t be seen as a weaken country cause we are second to none and islam urges us the right of self defense these fighter jets will defenitely protect us against indians. WHy do u like indians anyway? They are destroying our nation through their movies our youth shouldn`t be impressed by their filmi heroes but by leaders like jinnah ALlama iqbal and our nishan-e-haiders martyres who have sacrificed their lives for out better future your claims are totally baseless we should follow the path of china who havenot only progressed economically but also militarily we should be able enough to defend ourselves our economic developement is also very much essential but that cannot come untill and unless we have capable politicians u say judiciary would be free how much freedom does it demand??? do u know in 2005 or 2006 im not suree about the exact year ur most corrupted institution was ur judiciary. We need good people , people like Jinnah Liaqat Ali khan AyubKhan and ZIa to lead this nation to glory.PAkistan ZIndabad
15 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 15, 2008 at 12:50 pm
secondly Sufi the current chief of army staff had called out all the army officers serving in the civil departments of the country and there are im sorry there WERE only 5 generals in ur civil department and u claim that we will burn our own military hardware will only be followed by a person with an anti pak mentality as a patriotic pakistani would never think of damaging the material of their own coumntry
16 Sufi // Feb 15, 2008 at 9:01 pm
My hearts also bleeds for the miseries. I am more patriotic then anyone nor do I need any cirtificate to prove my loyality to my dear homeland. I am more faithul to my home land then any merciless generals.
We have been thought long before such bogus theories. So do not underestimate anyone. My heart is also in pains looking at the misries and suffering of the people.
Once agian! JF fighters would never save our country from dangers. Only socail justice would rescue us from outside aggression.
17 Sufi // Feb 15, 2008 at 9:07 pm
If the current chief has ordered to pull the army from civil institution then he should fist ask the YAZID Musharraf to end the seige of the respected chief Justice of Pakistan who is facing the wrath of the YAZIDS. The army chief must ask the illegal and unconstitutional president to stepo down. These tactics would not solve the problems of the people. We want justice not jet fighters. We need Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry not JF fighters.
We must provide justice to the people. India would never attack this country if justice is available to the people. Please shun the Indian centric mentality.
1962 war too was a foolish step taken by our stupid generals at the behast of the US.
18 jasmine // Feb 16, 2008 at 4:45 am
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19 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 16, 2008 at 11:24 pm
What made u say that india wont attack us if justice prevailed in this country if it was so loyal to us why the hell then it occupied kashmir in 1948 why in the world did she then attack us in 1965 and 1971.According to you our generals should have taken back kashmir in 1962 i know what ur pointing towards in 1962 india suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the chinese in kashmir what ur emphasizing is that we should have entered the war my dear friend war is not a gudda gurya khael on which basis wwould pakistan would be intervening in a foreign conflict secondly 1962 was just a start of china pak relationship the friendship at that time wasn`t the same as it is now sooo every action should have a motive or a guiding factor behind it we cannot just involve ourselves in a conflict that isn`t ours so the step was taken according to situation of that era.
20 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 16, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Secondlt it isn`t the job of current chief of army staff to dictate the president has he is trying his best to minimise his relationships with mr musharaf and as far as the indians are concerned i would never feel the same way about them as u do how could u have a soft corner for them when they seperated ur country into two how could u like them when they have occupied ur territory how could u even talk with them about peace when millions of muslims have been massacred there pakistan was created on the basis of two nation theory and inshallah it will stay till qiyamat cause hindus and muslims are two seperate nations and the border line b/w us will never be eradicated nor shall our hatred agianst them DEATH TO INDIA
21 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 16, 2008 at 11:51 pm
And in my view we need to progress not only socially economically but also militarily so that no body would regard us as lebonan or iraq and mashallah we do possess a very able army airforce and navy.
22 Sufi // Feb 17, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Forget what Inida is doing. Your generals are abducting and killing your won fellow muslims. In the name of war on terror your generals have detained thousands of people illegally,without any trial. Your generals have sacked 60 prestigious judges illegally. Your generals together with ISI and MI have detained the chief justice at the GHQ why? Inida has not done such a naked job-such a shame act.
What you are showing before the world that India has massacared thousands? What your generals and land lords are doing? The generals are eating the wealth of the whole nation for the last 60 years in the name of security. They fought the US war in Afghanistan and trianed the Taliban,Al-Qaeeda and other mercinares to fight the Soviets. And now the terrorists once freedom fighters have turned their guns towards their masters. This hyopricy must end immediatly. If the army chief is adamant to restore the image of the armed forces the he should ask the MI to lift the siege of the Chief Justice house. MI is directly answerable to the army chief.
If the chief wants to restore the image of the army he should not back such a merciless retired chief whose popularity is all time low- whose personality is hitting the imge of the armed forces.
We do need a strong force,but our justice is the prerequisite to ensure peace. It is the prerequisite to thawart foreign aggression. What happened to the soviet Union? 50,000 nuclear bombs could not rescued the world’s biggest empire. The generals must ensure rule of law,they should abide the law,they should respect the constitution,they should obey the rules prescribed in the constitution and should never present themselves beyond state. They are the servent of the nation,not masters. They must sure the security of the nation not indulge themselves in politics.
We do need a superior air foce but not at the expense of the security of the people. Security of the people comes first. The conception of the security of the state has ended after the demise of the Soviet Union. This is the era of Geo economics, people need food,shelter and cloth. They must have an access to the basic needs of life. Bombs,jet fighters,missiles and other weapons would never end the misries and sufferings.
Why would India attack you if the people are prosperious and happy. If your generals involve the army in politics they would not be able to check the activites of the foreign enemies. Your generals on the other hand created enemies within. By the grace of God we all are patriotic-far more patriotic then the Zionist and Qatil generals. So do not under estimate the level of patriotism. Nor sell the cirtificates to others like the fanatic muhallahs who are spreading the venom of religious extremism.
Lets speak the truth without fear. God bless this country and the whole nation. And make the usurpers and Qatil a horrible lesson like Qatil and Satan ZIA-UL-HAQ. We want all the Qatil and usurpers accountable before the natio. ZIA, the off spring of YAZID and ZIONISTS vanished-was punished what he did with this nation in the name of Islam. My my great Allah give the same punishment to the currnet YAZIDs who are destroying the image of the nation.
23 Sufi // Feb 17, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Calling shots agianst the India wont work. We must the country in order,ensure justice to the people,respect the rule of law and build institutions. If we do care about the security of the poeple India would never dare to attack us. No doubt that we have hostile relationship with India,but that does not mean that India is going to gobble down us. No never! If we look at the realities of the prevailing situation in the country we would come to know that our federation is in great danger,our economy is in danger. The units of the federation have thousands of reservations with the centre. The US and other powerful countries are dictating us,our soveringty is in danger. People have no access to the basic needs of life. Energy crisis has hit the economy,no concensus has developed to build large dams to tame the mommath challages. These are the real issues we must resolve. If we are intenally weak,divided and scattered then the foreign aggression can not be ruled. Our foreign debt has jumped to 40 billion USD. Do we still need to have jet fighters,tanks,bombs to counter the growing threat within.I think we are mistken-totally mistaken. We must keep the house in order that is the only solution to counter aggression,threats and challanges.
The generals must realise the gravity of the situation before it is too late. They can not afford to have adventures any more. It is already too late-to dangerous. They have looted,killed,plundered and usurped enough to shake the foundation stone of the country. They must now allow the real representatives to excerise their power.
They must realise the danagers roaming around the country. They must prove themselves that the army is the guaranteer of peace,not the symbol of hate and fear. They must ensure before the people that Pakistan army is not the servent and client army of the United States. So far they have rendered enough service to their masters,but enough is enough. The danager another 1971 episode is real and exists.
This the last chance to save the federation. The generals must realise it.
24 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 19, 2008 at 12:51 am
How can i forget india when these bastards have split my country into two.
ISI is professional intelligence institution comprising of both armed forces and civil personnel which general are u talking about ? Is it the former chief of ISI who now a days is the biggest rival of Mr mushraf.I being a pakistani fully trusts my country`s intelligence if it has detained some people there must be a justified explanation behind it cause no one amongst us would want suicide bombers to roam the streets of my country secondly you say india has nothing to do with it there are significant sings of RAW (indian intelligence) operating with in the pakistani borders from where do you think is the miscreants getting Rp gs , sub machineguns , grenades and stuff like that even one of the minister of balochistan revealed such facts.
The interests of pakistan comes first after 9 11 how many nations do you think were against american philosphy hardly any.In such circumstances what would your stance be would you be willing to come face to face with a world power obviously no and even if we did it would have hurted us a lot a more sometimes you have to think diplomatically not with walwala-angaezi.
Army chief is doing all he could , he in my view is doing his best job he has limited his relations with musharraf called of military personnel from civil services MI is a part of ISI and MI hasn`t detained the fomed chief justice check your sources what more do you really expect from him?
25 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 19, 2008 at 1:07 am
You normally say generals are this generals are that they are retarded freaks bla bla bla you see its easy to pin point someone and then do nukta cheini actually the reality is our politicians when normally unable to do things right blame generals for it even though they have nothing to do with it soo i ask u would u be willing to give me some examples to prove to me that generals really are responsible for all of the things you blame them for okie every instituion have both good and bad people there are even some ganda andas in out own army like musharaf but the majority and law abiding and good pakistanis so lets see if you would be able to prove that all army generals are vampires.
26 Sufi // Feb 23, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I never say bla bla bla. I say what suits and support the harsh reality. Generals whether sitting or retired are inherently corrupt. The whole structure of the army suits the ZIONISTS and Pantagon. Pakistan army,though a strong army but works for the imperialists and usurpers. This army has been used by the ZIONISTS during Afghan war led by IBLEES ZIA with the help of Regan Admin. This army created Taliban,Al-Qaeeda,mercinaries and other notorious orgnization in order to destablise the democratic process.
Z.A.Bhutto rescued 97 thousands soldiers from Indian clutches,the Generals in return hanged him.
The idea to create a just society is incompatible with what the generals see a great threat to their interest. Thats way they packed the supreme court and detained 60 judges and installed Mir Sadiq Abdul Hameed Dogar. This is the naked act they have taken to please Unlce Sam.
JF fighters was the actul issue and the whole story compelled me to write what is the order of the day.
I say do we have enough resources of test bombs or fighters? I say this country is facing enormous financial problems. The economy has almost collapse and trade deficit has crossed beyond the expectations of the state bank. The foreign debt has exceeded 40 billion USD. What if the good realities show a different picture. Testing bombs would never save this country from collapse nor would end the crisis. This country needs justice,economic progress and rule of law. Do not mess up the defence industry with the economic prosperity.
I would flux my muscle against the usurpers,assassins,butchers,Zionist agents,religious thugs,Taliban and Al-Qaeeda. I would accuse the conspiracy house in Rawalpindi where the fate of the coutry decides by few generals. I would accuse the generals for their YAZIDI and IBLISSI acts. I would raise voice against the enemies of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan. The enemies live within not out side.
They Iblis generals must be brought into justice. They should be make a horrible lesson before the nation so that no general in future could dare to follow the foot step of IBLEES Zia and Yazid Musharraf’s step.
Iblees House should be made peace house. Some of my friends talk about corruption politicians, their side of ramapage is one percent as compare to the Generals 99 percent they inflicted on this poor nation.
Yes all generals are vempire. This is a test case for Gen.Kayani to restore the image of the army.This army is a client army of the United States for thje last 60 years. Now Gen.Kayani must start revolutionary reforms on war footings before it is too late. The generals have so far wreaked havoc -brought destruction and plundered enough. Imagine this country’s foreign debt is exceeding beyond 40 billion USD. We spent 75 percent of our GDP on defence,but the end result is chaos.
Yes we all have a wish to have an amry of Pakistan-people friendly army not the client army of the US. We all are by the grace of God patriotic and pround of this great natoin thats what we would like to have an army purely Pakistani.
Gen.Kayani must understand the gravity of the situation. Iblees Musharraf is widening the gape between the army and the people of Pakistan. He issues notices to the hornourble Chief Jusitice to vacate the official residence,but is adamant to stay in army house.
Gen.Kayni must understand that Iblees Musharraf is not the legitimate president of Pakistan nor he qualifies for this post. He has illegally,unconstitutionally occupied this prestigious post. We all think that the army is still backing him. We all think that the Chief Justice of Pakistan has been detained by the army. We want him to resume his job as quick as possible. He has been fired by IBLEES Musharraf illegaly.
We all know that he was terrorised by the generals at GHQ on March 9. Gen.Kayani was also among the them who were present on that occasion. Now the army should understand that the lost image be resored only if the Chief Justice of Pakitan is reinstated. The people of Pakitan all well aware and well prepared to flux thier muscle to free their brave Chief Justice. I say enough is enough. Musharraf must go now he sould step down immediatly otherwise the client army status would proved to be quite right.
So let justice prevail and flurish the country will have a bright future inshallah.
27 Sufi // Feb 23, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Blaming RAW has become a fashion. This childish attitude must end once and for all. If our country is week every aggressor will have chance to strike-destablise and create chaos. If the atta is not avaible and weapon is then RAW would seize the opportunity to pursue the agenda of destablisation. If basic needs of life is out of the reach of the people,certainly chaos would prevail. We must understand the ground realities. Calling shots against RAW would proved to be futile. I would never bring any positive change or challange the status quo.
28 Sufi // Feb 23, 2008 at 10:03 pm
It was not India,but the system within created Bangladesh. India striked when iron was too hot. Despite the landmark victory of Awami League,the generals could not swallowed the result and started militry operation and the end result was destruction.
29 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 28, 2008 at 1:49 am
You know yar according to you , you dont say bla bla u just say facts and figures which unfortunately i wasn`t able to see khair i normally regard calling someone zionist ,assassin,butcher, iblees and pentagon agent as bla bla.
Secondly army and isi haven`t created taliban and alqaeda. Taliban was a group of students that came into being inorder to resist the ussr opression the literal meaning of taliban is a group of students.Alqaeda on the other hand has its leaders mainly of the arab origin Pakistan army didn`t created either one of them.Although it wouldn`t be wrong to say that pakistani afwaj did support the taliban miltarily and financially during the afghan debacle as the ussr backed afghan gov was hostile towards pakistan.Althoughneedless to mention but i am proud to say that during this whole period PAF shot down 14 Russian and afghan airforce fighter jets violating the pakistani airspace.(if anyone wanna see the pics of the drowned SUs and MIGs let me know i will post them).
1971 war: Let me first tell you that there is a difference b/w a commisioned soldier and a razakar there were about 35000-40000 commisioned soldiers of Pakistan army where as the rest were razakars of police , east pakistan rifles and even common people together they contributed about 90000 but your beloved country india always say 90000 soldiers they dont even bother to mention the real figures although it is true that the weapons laid by the total number of fighters were 90000.Despite 90 000 in numbers they were facing 50000 mukti bahinis rebels and also indian army 10 times more than their size.PAF only had one airfied in east pakistan withonly 10 F-86 sabres.
Now you say keh Z.A bhutto resuced them whats the big achievement no country would be ever willing to support an extra burden on its new economy secondly Z.A bhutto is the same man who demanded to be the future PM of pakistan even though his party lost the elections but he feriecely opposed the Awami league infact if he was a true patriot he should have allowed Awami league to form the gov but no he in his lust for power started a civil war (BY THE WAY WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH THE GENERALS) as far as hanging him is concerned he went through a trial was proven guilty by the supreme court so he was hanged thats it.
If pakistan now a dayz is in foreign debts then we should find solutions to solve such crises JF-17 is the pride of the muslim ummah just as the only muslim nation to possess nuclear capability we also are the only muslim nation who have developed our own fighter aircraft also known as the THUNDER FIghter it would greatly enhance our defence capability and we raise the morale of our fighter pilots it will also lessen our dependence on western countries and usa for military support not to mention that its export to other countries can earn us valuable income we should be proud on our engineers and PAF as they again had prove to the world that the pakistani nation isn`t lagging in any field.
30 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 28, 2008 at 1:59 am
yar i couldn`t really understand your gr8 affection for the mighty indian ass.Raw is an intelligence organisation its her work to destablise pakitan and her enemies one way or another and to provide the required intelligence to the top indian brass .Our intelligence agency ISI has the same task.How do you think the miscreants in balochistan are armed with ak47s and rpgs raw is financing them they dont have the means to have such heavy weapons.In the same manner the attacks on our politicians and upon our security forces may have RAW involvement.
31 Ibrahim Munir // Feb 28, 2008 at 2:09 am
I dont regard my hatred for India as childish i live in a democratic country and its my right to express my view i would never like a country who has massacred thousands of refugees in 1947 migrating towards pakistan , has forcibly occupied kashmir despite the demands of the people of kashmir, is violating the indus water treaty, is killing innocent muslims , kashmiris and minorities through out the country , Has attacked my country in 1948 , 1965 and 1971 and except for once have always got their asses kicked oh yup i have forgotten to mention kargil and siachen.
Secondly yar i dont know from which kittab you have quoted that army generals launched an operation in east pakistan in 1971 it wasn`t the generals which couldn`t swallow the defeat but it was Z.A bhutto of PPP who wasn`t ready to be in opposition and it was his hunger for power which seperated east pakistan and if he was a true leader he would never have allowed operation in east pakistan and for the sake of pakistan would have allowed mujib ur rehman to be the future pm.Yar blaming everything on generals without any source or clue it just a baetuki baat it is even mentioned in our O levels history book what happened in 1971 its written by Nigen kelly if u dont believe me go into the market and search for it and the read the 1971 part i hope that you would be satisfied.tc
32 Sufi // Feb 29, 2008 at 11:37 am
Yes the army should shollow the GDP at the expense of the people. You think that purchasing AK-47 or tanks would strengthen the counrtry. You think that supressing the voice of the people would ensure people,you think that calling shots against India would strentghen our country,you think that in order to run the defence affairs we sould borrow money from IMF and WB and let the monster orgnizations to dictate us. Truely you are wrong! absolutely wrong. It seems that you also think on the same lines as the fake jihadhis do. My dear strong defence is not the solution to ensure peace,but social justice is the only solution to strengthen peace. If you build infraustructure,build institutions,industries and factries and provide job the country will progress. If you borrow money from IMF to feed the merciless generals and build GHQ the country will become a banana republic of foreign powers. You can see how the US and Europeans are busy dictating us everyday-their activities are totally against the norms of diplomacy and against of soverignty of our country. This shows how weak we are. Imagine how our merciless retired commando was forced to bow down by the US defence secratory after the incident of 9/11. Imagine how IBLEES Zia played a dirty game in the hands of ZIONISTS. He fought the US jihad in Afghanistan at the expense of Pakistan. He destroyed the country in the name religion. He and ZIONISTS,CIA and other notorious agencies brought thousands of mercinaries from every corner of Islamic states and dispatched them to Afghanistan. They were trained,armed and nurtured by the combined forces of Israel,US and Pakistan to enure a proxy war against the Soviests. Soviets retreated,but the outcome is known everyone. The suicide bombings,AK-47 and madrassahs are a by product of US jihad waged by ZIONIST Zia and IBLEES generals.
If your own generals are destroying your country,selling your country to the imperialits,hatching conspiracies to destroy the institutions,hanging electing PM’s,spreading the venom of Muhallahism and targeting elected representatives then obviously the ground is fertile for the outsiders to destablise your country.
I do not need to go for books nor seek any material to justy the 1971 episod.
We must learn lesson from history,we must strengthen our institutions not let a YAZID to run the affairs of the state. We must not detain the Chief Justice of Pakistan and not let the outsiders to run the affairs of the country.
IBLEES Zia installed his own judges and hanged the elected PM. By the way he was asked by the US to do so because Bhutto dared to make Pakistan a nuclear state. Similarly another elected PM was sent to forced by another IBLEES. The same IBLEES has detained the Chief Justice of Pakistan and 60 other top judges to consolidate his grip on power and destory the institutions.Although I am against of nuclear armament,but the elected representatives showed more courage then the coward and merciless generals. Now the time has come understand the ground realities and shun reductionist approach. We should keep our house in order that is the order of the day.
33 Gemeral // Mar 11, 2008 at 4:09 am
Yar Ibrahim you are fantastic….mara tum to zabardast ho kana mara…pathan is glad to read what you posted mara tum dua karo that Pakistan gets its hand of J-10 as well…by the way Pakistan is in 40 billion debt its not because of Musharraf its because of Benazir and Nawaz from 1989 to 1998 damn these 2 nay lootmar kiya and fked up pakistan well…weather you take it as joke or not but both of these 2 Benazir and Nawaz account together make it atleast 7 billion dollars US. I say take it out of their asses and it’ll give us a 10 years of debt relieve…and we can do alot in these 10 years. By the way Ibrahim i need to know mara tum tell me why in the hell did pakistan govt not ask US to give it 10 billion dollars or bakish dey 10 billion dollars of debt like Tuukiyoan ney kiya ans US gave them 10 billion dollars just ot station in Turkey to attack Iraq…i think it was the stupidity of our govt not to ask US had they it would have been granted mara yara samjha karo na yaar. Anyways cool to see some one with balls not not taking Hindus bhindians side…
34 khan // Mar 12, 2008 at 5:12 pm
My dear sufi you are from the which part of india. because u cant see raw in pakistan. you want to say to us that we forget about the saying that we should keep our arm strong. you are kidding me
35 Manish Bagdi // Mar 17, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Dear All,
As far as LCA is concerned the time and cost overruns have been compensated with incorporation most morden avionics of the date. The fighter now standa as 4.75 generation aircraft and can be compared with any of its contemprory fighters.
JF-17 is a big step for pakistan as they have understood how to incorporate the latest tech fighter jet and enhansing inhouse production facilities. JF-17 has given them a path towards self reliance in making any m,ordern aircraft.
36 ibrahim munir // Mar 23, 2008 at 1:00 am
@ Manish Bagdi
Yar i respect you but i would really appreciate if you post a link or tell me a source confirming that INDIA`s LCA (Light combat aircraft) is a 4.75 generation aircraft infact what is a 4.75 generation aircraft i have heard a 4th generation and 5th generation aircraft but 4.75 is kinda new to me and secondly how can it be a 5th generation or 4th generation aircraft when its a light combat aircraft as its name suggest secondly its still under construction its proto types are still under testing i have heard a some weeks ago that india has stopped its construction just like arjun tank cause its extremely costly and is experiencing several problems.
37 ibrahim munir // Mar 23, 2008 at 1:25 am
@ Sufi
i hope that the confession of sarbajeet singh on tv must have openned ur eyes and confirmed raw`s presence within pakistan.
You never ans my questions?????
Answers to ur questions
-Yes purchasing tanks and Ak47s would definitely enhance my country`s defence
-Who said about calling shots against india? when in history did we ever call the shots against india? its everytime india invading into our territory and no we are a peace loving nation and its our duty to be ready to punch back incase of a war just like MR JINNAH SAID
“A country without a strong airforce is at the mercy of its enemy”
-You say we borrow money from IMF and WB to make our defence productions let me conmfirm this to you in the last 5 years we haven`t taken a single loan we are proud that our defence productions like Alkhalid tanks ,Alzarar tanks , TALHA SAAD & KHALID submarines , K8 aircraft , JF-17 fighter jet and all others from nuclear missiles to anzas are being done by us by our own engineers and all this is being done in the last 5 years thus proving that these defence productions are not being done at the disposal of imf loans infact all of these loans are being taken by Muhatrama Bhutto and NAWAZ sharif who now a days is lacking in sharafat.
-You say we should build infrastructure eg industries and other institutions yar how can i explain it to you that our defence productions donot i repeat donot just for you i repeat once more DONOT hamper our industrial growth in the last few years several industrial estates and units have been established throughout pakistan SUNDAR industrial estate is an example of such estates what the problem is that we dont have dams now u will say we dont have dams because our military uses it no meray bhai no the problem is your political leaders for their own personel sake and interest donot build dams thats why after the construction of tarbela and mangla dams in the 1960s we havenot build any dams i hope that the politicians instead of fighting our small personel interest think abt the interests of pakistan and build new dams cause no dams = no agriculture ; no power developement thus building new industries is a wastage of time untill and unless u solve ur power crisis.
-U say strong defence donot ensure peace i disagree with you cause a strong defence do ensure peace if your statement was correct then isreal would never have attacked lebonan.Iraq and afghanistan would never have been invaded by usa.The reason was simple both the nations (lebonan and iraq) didn`t posses any strong armed forces thus they were attacked by military powers like isreal and usa and now both lay in ruins thus ISLAM also teaches us to be well prepared to face any crisis.
38 ibrahim munir // Mar 23, 2008 at 1:46 am
U earlier told me that u dont say bla bla but making nonsense claims like feeding generals from imf without any source or clue and calling names like zionists and yazid in my view is bla bla
-You think that we are dictated by us and the west no ur wrong what we are doing is in our own interests inorder to curb militancy (RAW) once and for all from the country inorder to ensure a peaceful tomorrow.
YOU said:
(If your own generals are destroying your country,selling your country to the imperialits,hatching conspiracies to destroy the institutions,hanging electing PM’s,spreading the venom of Muhallahism and targeting elected representatives then obviously the ground is fertile for the outsiders to destablise your country.)
what do u mean by that?
YOU SAID:
(I do not need to go for books nor seek any material to justy the 1971 episod.)
Do you think that ur somekinda magician who would know the history without even reading a single word????
-You said ZIa installed his own judges??? common man whats ur source just saying that this happen doesnot really make it happen there is no proof isnhistory of the things that ur telling to me following ur policy i can say pakistan is the biggest country of the world now when a person who donot have knowledge in this regard read it wouldlearn the wrong info thats exactly what ur doing.
U are a big supporter of adalia i respect u for that cause judciary should be free but let me ask u one question what do u exactly mean when u say that they should be free?.DO u know that in 2005 judiciary was the 2nd or 3rd most corrupt institution of pakistan.
So the ground reality here is we are in need of a good leadership , we need a strong defence inorder to safeguard our motherland in future, we need to build dams and ignore the rubbish of nationalist parties cause pakistan is more important that punjab , sindh , nwfp , balochistan and kashmir , we should eradicate sectarianism and provincialism from amongst us , we should be proud to call our selves as mausalmans first and then pakistanis instead of being shias sunnis , punjabis pathans sindhis kashmiris or balochis as in unity lies strength, our media should play a positive role just like western and indian media , we should eradicate corruption from our institutions, democracy or no democracy if we adopt the above stated policies inshallah we will be strongest nation and ummah in the world.
39 ibrahim munir // Mar 23, 2008 at 1:57 am
@ Gemeral Pakhaer raghlae
thanks yar for agreeing with me j-10 no doubt is a gr8 jet but its equivalent to F-16s and we are having enough of those in our inventory what PAF is lacking is a bomber and by bomber i dont mean just dropping bombs cause even the F-16s and Mirages can do this what i mean by dropping bombs is carpet bombing resulting in enemy ka poora ka poora safayya currently we are only having A-5c bombers which too are pretty old and about to be retired pretty soon but yar F-16 has the capability to carry a nuclear warheards so no worries.But Pakistan is looking for some fascinating new inductions in its inventory from china i dont think that its going to be j-10 although our cabinet earlier approved to buy them but later it was decided to go for something better than j-10s from our ally the chinese.
40 Manish Bagdi // Mar 25, 2008 at 9:55 am
Hi Ibrahim ,
This is in further to your reply on my comment, it would like to mention that the 4.75 generation fighter jet are those jets which are ahead then 4th generation fighter aircraft and fell short of 5th generation fighter jet.
LCA Tejas is being developed in mid nineties and the avionics and the airframe goes parallel to the latest generatrion of fighter jet hence it is called to be a 4.75 generation fighter jet.
The avionics and core computer of LCA Tejas is quite comparable to Typhoon and F-22, it is well ahead of Rafale and Gripin. The FCS, FBW, CCA, INS and othe r technology is even better then the SU-30MKI Mk.3 version.
The weight of the fighter is not releated to the generation of the fighter jets weather it is light or the medium or heavy.
F-22 is far ahead then TEJAs in terms of stealth and the BVR missile, AESA radar so Tejas is kept for 4.75 generation while the F-22 id for fifth generation fighter jet.
Hope the things are clear to you.
Manish Bagdi
41 Swapnil // Nov 21, 2008 at 3:12 am
Guys,
I went through few articles that you guys have posted . I noticed that most of you hate INDIA (My Mother Land ). But no one has a valid reason to do so . History has proven that no civilian would have respect for the enemy country (In our case you dont respect my country and dont yours ). i think it is all poltical moves . It is their Propoganda to create this kind of feeling in the mind of their civilians to get vote. so we as an educated civilian should look in the problem and try to reduce this difference among our country, Rather than blaming each others.
If you want to fight lets fight together with the forigeners who seperated us who divided us . they still continue to do that to sell the arm ecquipments .
Swapnil
(this is my first bloging msg so please excuse me is there are any mistakes
42 leo // Nov 21, 2008 at 12:27 pm
MAKE LOVE NOT WARS
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