Q.1 Can you tell us about your political career?
Ans: I joined Communist Party of Pakistan (CPP) in 1949 when I was a student at Gordon College Rawalpindi. I was one of the founder members of the Democratic Students Federation (DSF) which was established in 1950. Under the banner of Pakistan Trade Union Federation, this was a mass front of CPP, actively participated in Trade Union activity in Rawalpindi and Attock Districts. The CPP was banned in 1954, however the party set up an underground apparatus with which I remained committed. Besides myself, the core of this set up consisted of CR Aslam, Eric Cyprian, Shaukat Ali and Major Ishaq (for some time). In 1956-57, in compliance of a policy decision of CPP, I joined the National Awami Party (NAP) but remained inactive, after the split in the NAP (1966-67), I was actively associated with NAP (Bhashani) and was a member of its Central Working Committee. In 1970, actively participated in organizing Toba Tek Singh Kissan Conference and similar Conferences in Khanewal and Chani Goth. After the separation of East Pakistan, NAP (Bhashani) was dissolved and in 1972 at a representative conference of political workers of the left held at Khanewal, Pakistan Socialist Party (PSP) was formed. Comrade CR Aslam was elected as its President and I was elected as its Secretary General. I worked in that capacity for three successive terms. When the PSP split in 1986, our group formed the Pakistan Workers Party and actively worked for establishing a larger formation. As a first step, we were able to join hands with the Communist League (Karachi) and some other leftist groups and founded Awami Jamhoori Party (AJP). Ultimately in May 1999, three leftist parties, namely the AJP, the Pakistan Socialist Party of CR Aslam and the National Party (after the death of its founder Mir Ghous Bux Bizenjo) joined hands and established the National Workers Party (NWP) in a large workers conference held in Lahore. I was elected NWP€ ’s President, which office has been bestowed on me again in 2007.

Q-2 Pakistan is British common wealth colony, in which feudal, tribal and highly backward mode of production is prevalent. As a political activist and a leading Lawyer of Pakistan how do you perceive recent judicial crisis in Pakistan?
Ans: Pakistan represents a paradox. It inherited feudal and tribal structures established by the Colonial Powers and yet it also inherited a trained bureaucracy and army organized on modern lines. The political tradition which has its foundation in the all embracing movement for Indian independence, was a multi-class movement with a democratic flavor. An anglo-saxon judicial system sans English traditions built in the image of the British arche-type and a system of governance in the form of Government of India Act, 1935, constituted the super-structure of society. One can notice all these trends in post-colonial Pakistan. In view, however of the predominance of feudal relations and the absence of a national bourgeoisie having any significant industrial or commercial stakes in Pakistan’s economy, neither a firm democratic politics was generated nor a strong enough working class movement could grow. Pakistan’s general socio-political landscape is dominated by those realities. The rise of armed forces as an all important section of the bureaucratic structure owes itself partly to the given socio-economic structure and partly on account of the India Pakistan conflicts and Cold War rivalries which turned Pakistan into a security state. Pakistan’s alignment with the United States, including its security organizations (e.g. Baghdad Pact, SEATO & SENTO), made the Armed Forces internally powerful and externally well-connected. History of Military intervention in Pakistan’s political affairs is too well known to be recounted. In consequence, however, Military has assumed an extra-ordinary political position. Besides these, military’s growth alongside commercial, corporate and industrial lines has now resulted in acquisition of interests of enormous magnitude. Military is owner of large areas of land and is engaged directly or indirectly in real estate business. That makes it a serious, contender for State power. Pakistan had from very early stages assumed the role of a dependent state policy of living on borrowed money. Its economy thus became debt-ridden and subservient to the dictates of international finance institutions. Since the fall of Soviet Union and the rise of unipolar world the so-called Globalization, which only means rise of neo-colonialism worldwide Pakistan is in the grip of neo-liberal economic policies. That is the general statement of Pakistan’s social and economic framework and the same determines the politics of this country. In the absence of a strong working class and a leftist political movement, the political course of events is generally determined by the feudal and super-rich mafia through their political outfits mostly in collaboration with the military. The religious Right frequently acts in aid of maintaining status quo and for applying brakes to any forward looking policy. Since military rule in Pakistan has dominated the course of events, most of the political movements from the time of the first Martial-Law, have remained concerned with that issue. The first casualty in all Military coups is always the Constitution and Constitutionally established institutions foremost amongst them being the judiciary and lawyers therefore have a natural aversion to military dominated set ups. From the time of the 1958 Martial Law, through Zia’s Islamic Dictatorship and military rule to the present day, the Bar Associations and Bar Councils were the first to stand up in protest and unleash a movement in opposition to military dictatorship. This time round, the attack on judiciary (the erstwhile mid-wife that legitimized Martial Laws) was most blatant and humiliating. The reaction from the lawyers was therefore severe. The role of the media greatly added to the spread of the movement. The truth is that the socio-economic conditions that have made the life of the common people of Pakistan miserable have also contributed towards all this remember that lawyers mostly are from common people. Lawyers as a class are neither political nor a revolutionary class. The left politics being weak and scattered however has not been able to play its role in providing the movement a direction or revolutionary content. Nevertheless, the lawyer’s movement has had the impact of politicizing larger sections of the people and in creating some dents in the military-controlled establishment.

Q-3. Do you think that socialism and theory of class struggle is still relevant in this Uni-pollar Cyber world, and is it still a motive force in historical development?
Ans: As long as a social system is class based, class struggle is inevitable. However, the nature of classes in a given society will determine the nature of class struggle and the character of social change that is required to be achieved. The ultimate objective of a revolutionary class struggle is the abolition of exploitative classes and the establishment of firstly a Socialist and then a Communist society free from exploitation. The great October Revolution of 1917 and the subsequent revolutions in China and elsewhere, all sought to achieve that objective. The history of these Revolutions and of their subsequent development however is full of vicissitudes. The history of these Revolutions and causes of the failures of the systems that arose in the wake of these Revolutions, however, are matters which require deep reflection and a correct application of the basic Marxist principles so as to reorganize forces for launching a new movement. The Globalization of Capital and Market supported by the advancements in scientific technology has added another dimension to this struggle. These developments, and the fall of Soviet Union and World Socialist Camp call for reappraisal of objective conditions both at the national and at the international level. Movement for social change and revolutions are not matters of mere emotional response to unjust systems. They require scientifically determined strategies and tactics.

Q-4. Paradoxically left and neo-liberals fought for the restoration of democracy, human rights and civil society in neo-colonial, feudal and sublime society, which has now proud to be worthless in Pakistan. Democracy and civil society both are modern capitalist free-trade phenomena, how can we apply these social phenomena, in our feudal and anti-social societies, please elaborate?
Ans: Democracy and civil society concepts, no doubt, have arisen with the advent of modern industrialist- capital system. Feudalism is an anti-thesis of such concepts. Dismantling of feudal economic relations and socio-political structures based on such relations, is a pre-requisite for any change towards a democratic system. Historically that task was undertaken by the rising bourgeoisie but in Pakistan that has not happened. That task here has to be performed by the left and its peasant and working class mass fronts. If the left is able to establish such a mass movement, it shall not only furnish a sound basis for establishing a democratic society but also create the basis for a forward march towards freeing Pakistan from the so-called neo-liberal agenda ultimately leading our people to an exploitation free social system. A social revolution of that magnitude is possible today only through mass support. The revolution thus shall be by the people and of the people

Q-5. Since the downfall of Socialist Camp and Soviet Union, the doctrine of market-mechanism, Laissez-fairs, stock markets, have jeopardized our socio-economic growth and national interests. Recessions, depressions, crisis, unemployment, inflation, deflation, uncertainty, is the national and inevitable result of it. How do you elaborate this, and do NWP has any economic doctrine for the liberation of our labour and productivity?

Ans: The fall of Socialist Camp has had no direct impact on the socio-economic conditions of Pakistan. Pakistan was and continues to be a predominantly agrarian society with feudal socio-economic relations persisting. The ruling classes in our country remained attached to world capitalist system the Bhutto nationalization project notwithstanding. Pakistan was therefore a free market economy from the very beginning. The fall of Soviet Union and its allied States, made the market economics of Capitalism global. The scientific and technological advancements have been fully employed in aid of this system. The advanced industrial states led by the United States, supported by the World Bank, the IMF and the instrumentalities of WTO are now freely clamping their neo-colonial agenda throughout the length and breadth of the world particularly the third world there being no alternative available to the people as at present. The aggravate the class imbalances both internationally and locally in various countries. Rich nations are becoming richer at the cost of developing and underdeveloped countries while within national societies, both of advanced and less advanced and backward countries the class contradictions are becoming acute and the poor are becoming poorer. The evolving situation cannot be resolved by the prevalent system/systems which infact are the creator of these contradictions. A stage is being set for a world revolution against those who globally manipulate the means of production to the disadvantage of all humanity. In Pakistan, however, we are faced with rather a preliminary stage of social revolution. In this country we need to uproot feudalism both as an economic as well as social system alongwith establishing an industrial base in the first instance. The forces thus unleashed shall furnish the foundation for the next step i.e. to work for an exploitation free society. That is what the National Workers Party aims at.

Q-6. We have learnt from history that the ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch, the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. Do you think that in this rotten neo-colonial system, we can liberate our land and our workers from the oppression by the means of elections or you and your party have some other ideological program?
Ans: While it is true that the ruling class, in a class society forces the people to accept its notions and ideas about society and its superstructure, the inevitable dialectical process however gives birth to newer ideas. Marxism in its philosophy of dialectics and class struggle is such an idea. It remains new and potent as against the anti-people social and economic philosophy of Capitalism. The instruments employed by the new social ideas, however, are not fixed and limited and sometimes may be furnished by the very class against which the new ideas are pitched in their struggle. The working class and the trade union movement are the product of the Capitalist system but they, if properly employed become the grave-diggers of system itself. Elections by themselves may not seem revolutionary exercise but in the hands of socially conscious working people and their allied classes, they are capable of producing results such as have been produced in some Latin American countries.

Q-7. Do you believe that rights originated from force?
Ans: Rights of people are determined in the course of social evolution. In a class society the downtrodden have to fight for their rights. This struggle determines the course of social evolution.

Q-8. How do you differentiate between Love and Hate? Do you think that in essence they are class question?
Ans: Social conditions do have their impact on all human feelings including the feelings of love and hate.

Q-9. You belongs to a great historical legacy of Indo-Pak Freedom and revolutionary struggle, do you think that the clarion call of Mangal Panday and the battle cry of Bhaghat Singh is still alive, and the preface of the most terrible tragedy written in 1947 will have to be enacted?
Ans: As long as unjust social conditions prevail and exploitation of man by man and of under developed people by rich nations persists war of liberation and struggle for achieving a just society shall continue. Martyrs of this struggle in the days gone by shall be remembered as living symbols by succeeding generations.

Q-10. British intruders were of this view that we do not have our own history, no known history. What we call its history is but the history of the successive intruders who founded their Empires on the passive basis of that unresisting and unchanging society. How do you perceive it?
Ans: Who ever entertains the view that the people of the sub-continent, that includes what is now called Pakistan, has no history or no known history, deliberately misstates facts. Indo-Pakistan people have had a long and at times glorious history. The makers of this history were its people common people who erected magnificent building structures, established great seats of learning and produced hand made fabric of extraordinary standers. It was the common people who subscribed to and supported the Sufi and Bhagti cults which spread the message of Love and Peace and prepared ground for a secular and pro-people society. No doubt that the medieval history of the sub-continent was greatly influenced by Kings and Emperors both Hindus and Muslims and also by invaders from outside, but that happens to be the history of all lands during the middle ages and Europe is no exception to that. The rich culture of the intellectual religious and literary movements of the sub-continent who ever make its history distinctive and do not restrict it to a story of Empire building, invasions and rise and fall of this or that dynasty. With the advent of British East India Company which sooner turned into British imperial Rule in India the history of the Sub continent took a turn in that it produced herioic examples of people’s resistance against the foreign intruders. Resistance, revolt and rebellion was wide spread. It was secular in its character and it was largely sustained by ordinary people. That at places native Rulers, both Hindus and Muslims were also part of this resistance, does not change its character as a popular anti-British movement in which the essential role was that of the people, whether they were men in the armed forces, or peasants or other common folks. It was this movements which furnished the basis for the subsequent politics of national independence with a secular outlook. The history of our people-both in the creation of culture and civilization in establishing a secular movement for independence of the sub-continent has induced been glorious. The events of the period before, during and after 1857 been testimony to that assertion.

Q-11. You have recently re-published your literary essays in “Point of View”. As a student of literature, do you think that literature is an economic question, and how do you interpret art and literature in this age? Do you think that our undue literature has any social and historical significance in our dying society?
Ans: Some of the issues raised by you in your question have been raised earlier also, and most of the essays which appear in the book “Nukta-e-Nazar” , reflect my views on these matter. In particular those with the following titles: Discuss the nature of creative activity in literature, the impact of socio-economic conditions on literature and the character of our classical and contemporary writings. It is unnecessary to repeat all that here again I may , however, remark that while all human activities and that includes creative and artistic activity is directly or indirectly influenced by social and economic conditions that prevail in a given society the relationship between objective reality and mental process is quite complex. Neither is human mind and mere machine nor do creative instincts always operate mechanically objective conditions, which are largely determined by economic relationships that prevail in a given society are the principal immediate influence operating on one’s mind. But all that is stored in the human mind as a result of varied experiences both personal, social and historical has a strong role in determining how a creative activity will functions in a given situation. As for today’s society, which you rightly describe as degenerating because of the ruthless explitative system that prevail, it is not a one sided story. People in different countries, both developed and under developed, are once again rising to resist and even over turn the neo-imperial forces of global corporate monster and local collaborators. I am not referring to religious obscurantist elements and their suicide bombers. I am talking of people in Latin-America, in Asia, and Africa and even in Europe and the U.S, who advocate and alternative economic system free from exploitation. The dialectical process has not stopped, nor is it the end of history. Literature and art of today does reflect this on going struggle. Just as those engaged in this struggle for social and economic change, draw heavily on the experience of the past revolution including the great October Revolution, the creative writer relates himself with the great literature of the days gone by and carries forward the progressive tradition.

Q-12. Left-oriented political parties and trade union in the third world countries especially Pakistan has lost its ideological and social class content, especially since the collapse of Soviet Union. How do you perceive this phenomenon and do you have any ideological remedy for this crisis?
Ans: I do not agree with the broad generalizations contained in your question. It is true that the events of the decades of late 80’s and 90’s the disintegrations of Soviet Union and the phenomenal rise of global corporate forces supported by advanced technology had pushed back the contending forces of change. By the end of the last century and the advent of the 21st century, however, it was patent that the so-called new-order was nothing but a more aggressive and ruthless neo-imperialism controlled and manipulated by the advanced capitalist countries under the leadership of U.S. imperialism. The contending forces of the people are once again re-grouping and re-organising. In this process they are re-visiting revolutionary concepts, including Marxist thought and practice that takes some time. The issues raised by the spread of neo-liberal economies with the tremendous support of the high technology need to be examined and analysed and appropriate strategies and tactics devised both at the international and at the national and regional levels to unleash movements for a change and for an alternative system, neither Marxism, nor concept of scientific socialism is a dogmatic. These need to be continuously developed and creatively applied to new objective realities. Marxists, the world over, are on this job. Scientific socialists in Pakistan are also doing their bit in their direction. I don’t think that the situation is hopless.

Q-13. Anglo-American imperialism has waged a most ruthless and unjust war against our people. Do you think, that, we can liberate our planet from the trans national shackles of the West in 21st century?
Ans: I have no doubt in my mind that the present stage in the development of capitalist system with its shameless neo-imperialist policies and ruthless exploitation of all people in fast reaching a saturation level. A world revolution is now on the agenda. The 20th century will work in a more nature, more experienced and a more sustained socio-economic movement the world over.

Q-14. Modern degeneration and humiliation of mankind is due to unjust and exploitative monetary system. Do you agree that without being a shy lock, it is possible for a social human being to survive in this monetary world?
Ans: Days of the blood thirsty shylocks of the finance capital era of capitalism are fast coming to an end. You have only to equip yourself with scientific understanding of this epoch and shunning dogma and were emotional slogan mongering organize the masses of the people for bringing about a social and economic change in Pakistan and in the whole world. =========================================================================

Abid Hassan Minto is President National Workers Party and Convenor of the 7 parties left alliance “Awami Jamhoori Tehrik”. He is former Voice President International Association of Democratic Lawyers and former president Supreme Court Bar Association.

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